A famous Historian, Flavius Josephus, had written about the existence of Jesus, Jesus stated that man and women were created. That's good enough for me to still believe in Creation
Multiple historians have written about Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith stated the Book of Mormon is of divine origin.
Is that good enough for you as well to join the LDS church?
i was just reflecting about this site and it`s influence on me and what i have got out of it and it came to me that whatever subject i bring up , or others bring up , the obvious thing is we engage in discussion .that`s what it`s all about .. however , the feedback we get or the input we give , far outweighs anything we ever achieved going from d2d for the wtb&ts./ wt real estate agency /publishing house .. how many times did you have a meaningful discussion with a person at a door ?, as a jw ?
not many i would think.. the majority of times , they were not home or not opening the door to you , so even if you did meet people they were too busy to talk to you or they just were not interested.. whereas , here on this board you engage with many people from all over the world , and we can discuss a subject as long as we want.until it runs it`s course.. i think anybody who posts here has had far more satisfaction in their interaction with other people on this board than they ever experienced in the d2d work as a jw.. and i hope that people who just lurk here can see the benefits of open discussion in a forum like this without judgement and recriminations that occur in the jw religion for speaking your mind.. smiddy.
@Joe,
Great point!
There is another general topic forum I participate in.
My answer to the question "Do you remember when you realized your religion is a lie" includes explanation about and links to ARC. This was viewed by 13k people. More than I ever even met in all those years of field service. And most of those are not fellow exJWs who already know that kind of stuff.
Much more effective indeed!
i've read many statements on this forum from people who have expressed the sentiment that you don't shove ttatt down the throat of an older person.
it would be too traumatic and its best to let some people, in some situations, simply pass on in the delusion.. its humane.
merciful.. in the initial roar of my awakening, i was unable to cuddle up to that sentiment; preferring, instead, to shove the blood curdling shock of truth down the throat of anyone i could get my grip on... age be dammed.
Well done.
Religious people normally have a set of rules to live by: obey God and his human representatives at all cost.
Atheists do not have such a set of rules to obey. Each one decides for him/herself what action to take, including participating (or not) in any religious activity.
Even when put to the stand, threatened with death, religious folks may not deny the existence of their God because that means forsaking Him (although enough religious people would be ok with forsaking God to save their life, because they feel He knows they still believe in Him anyway)
But for an atheist in most cases stating that he does believe in some God or another to save his life is a no-brainer. It's similar to agreeing that the green car is actually red. No divine beings' feelings will be hurt.
And since it's of no celestial spiritual eternal concequence, an atheist can say a prayer if that makes an old sick man feel better...*
*) This is not a rule in the Atheist Bible....it's my own conclusion that applies to my life ;-)
i was just reflecting about this site and it`s influence on me and what i have got out of it and it came to me that whatever subject i bring up , or others bring up , the obvious thing is we engage in discussion .that`s what it`s all about .. however , the feedback we get or the input we give , far outweighs anything we ever achieved going from d2d for the wtb&ts./ wt real estate agency /publishing house .. how many times did you have a meaningful discussion with a person at a door ?, as a jw ?
not many i would think.. the majority of times , they were not home or not opening the door to you , so even if you did meet people they were too busy to talk to you or they just were not interested.. whereas , here on this board you engage with many people from all over the world , and we can discuss a subject as long as we want.until it runs it`s course.. i think anybody who posts here has had far more satisfaction in their interaction with other people on this board than they ever experienced in the d2d work as a jw.. and i hope that people who just lurk here can see the benefits of open discussion in a forum like this without judgement and recriminations that occur in the jw religion for speaking your mind.. smiddy.
Yes. 1 evening on this boards yields more interaction that a lifetime of FailedCircus. And it's the same on other boards where similar topics are discussed.
Not because the conversation partners are necessarily better equipped or more willing to engage. No, over the years I've met some people in FS who were willing and able to engage in deeper discussions.
What makes the difference then? Me! I was the unwilling, closed minded person who thought conversations (about religious topics) should be like this:
Of course a lifetime of TMS largely contributed to that style of 'conversation'.
There is a danger however: now that I know TTAWBTS and have increased my knowledge on several topics, the fire is burning in me brighter than it ever did before: other people need to hear this! But others might not readily agree....not even after I show them how wrong they are and.....oh wait...that my Inner Jehovah's Witness showing again....need to kill that one some day ;-)
more changes in us and canada operations.. new "arrangements" in jw.org to get more benefits and less costs.
logistics in canada and the united states will be managed by a new arrangement.. confidential: a famous supermarket and logistics company will take care of sending literature, keep an eye not getting your wt supplies together with a butter cream pot.. read well: wal **** logistics .... more layoffs.... headquarters in canada of this famous company only at 37 km away from watchtower canada..
Uhm....I think you have it backwards. I am quite sure Walmart will be using Watchtower for distribution: Walmart Looks to Drones to Speed Distribution
Watchtower has been using mindless drones for distribution for over 135 years now...they are very experienced!
:-D
i was skimming through old numbers of the watchtower and came across this interesting bit.
under the headline "ungodliness and discontent", the article claims:.
"[...] we have more than once called attention to in these columns, namely, that the spread of education, and increase of wealth, are not tending to make mankind happier, holier or more content, but rather the reverse.
That's probably 1910, not 2010 ;-)
some internal sources in jw.org has brought me attention to the following data:.
- in which european country, not member of the eu, and well known for their banking industry, jw.org and some affiliated structures do maintain some business incorporated structures and companies?.
- which is the purpose of these business and company structures?.
judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.
imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.
by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.
@ProblemAddict,
Check PM as well ;-)
judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.
imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.
by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.
@Terry,
You forgot 'other' before 'criminals'.
judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.
imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.
by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.
@problemaddict,
Al lot of BOE's including the 1997 child abuse letter: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qynoqttqpo30nx4/1905-2015-BOE-File.pdf?dl=0
But I guess the court is looking for letters that the congregation sent back to WT HQ in reply to the BOE letter.
Those letters would show they knew they had a child abuser in their midst....and they did nothing about it.
This letter is almost certain to never be leaked, as it is sent from a congregation to HQ.
